YouTube Deep SummaryYouTube Deep Summary

Star Extract content that makes a tangible impact on your life

Video thumbnail

29岁创业卖穆斯林头巾，营收7位数？► 她做对了什么？- ShopHanya & HariByHari 联合创办人 Veen Dee

后起之秀 Rising Podcast • 67:09 minutes • YouTube

🤖 AI-Generated Summary:

Ключевые выводы и инсайты

  • Предпринимательство в модной индустрии — очень сложный и долгий путь, требующий терпения, настойчивости и правильного планирования.
  • Важна глубокая сегментация рынка и понимание специфики целевой аудитории (например, малайский рынок имеет свои особенности и потенциал).
  • Инновации и уникальный дизайн, ориентированный на потребности клиентов, способны вывести бренд на высокий уровень продаж.
  • Построение бренда — это не только продажи, но и создание сообщества, вовлечение клиентов в процесс создания продукта и поддержание с ними близких отношений.
  • Личный вклад и страсть основателя — ключевые элементы, которые невозможно скопировать конкурентам.
  • Ошибки и неудачи — неотъемлемая часть развития бизнеса, из которых нужно учиться и не бояться делать новые попытки.
  • Важен позитивный и устойчивый менталитет, умение вести диалог с самим собой и не бояться признать свои ошибки.

Практические стратегии

  • Проведение тщательного анализа и понимание нужд целевой аудитории перед запуском продукта.
  • Использование бизнес-плана и поиск инвестиций через бизнес-предложения, а не только личные сбережения.
  • Быстрый запуск коллекций с постоянным обновлением ассортимента для поддержания интереса рынка.
  • Активное взаимодействие с клиентами через соцсети: опросы, вовлечение в выбор деталей коллекции, создание сообщества "Friends of Hanya".
  • Контроль качества и внимательная работа с производством, обращая внимание на детали.
  • Грамотное управление командой: формирование культуры, отбор по ценностям и проактивности, своевременное увольнение не подходящих сотрудников.
  • Осторожное расширение штата и запасов, избегая перерасхода и излишних запасов.
  • Использование тренд-форекастинга (например, WGSN) для планирования коллекций.
  • Защита интеллектуальной собственности: хранение и защита файлов, чертежей, данных.
  • Управление эмоциональным состоянием через позитивный внутренний диалог и принятие неудач как опыта.

Важные детали и примеры

  • Бренд Hanya существует 8 лет, Hari — 4 года, штат — около 20-25 человек.
  • За первый месяц продажи Hari в период Hari Raya достигли 7 млн малайзийских ринггитов.
  • Оригинальный дизайн двухстороннего хиджаба продан тиражом более 300,000 штук.
  • В пандемию бренд заработал 3-4 млн благодаря выпуску масок для лиц с уникальным дизайном для носителей хиджабов.
  • Перерасход на расширение штата (до 50 человек) и запасов привел к серьезным убыткам и необходимости распродажи остатков.
  • Использование платформы FashionValet помогло получить опыт масштабирования с 4 до 300 сотрудников и управления маркетинговым бюджетом от 1,500 до 5 млн.
  • Для тренд-форекастинга используется платформа WGSN.
  • Важность бизнес-предложения для получения инвестиций от родственников (пример с отцом и тестем).
  • Истории успеха сотрудников, которые смогли улучшить свою жизнь благодаря работе в компании.

Предупреждения и распространённые ошибки

  • Не использовать собственные сбережения для запуска бизнеса, а искать внешние инвестиции.
  • Перерасширение штата и запасов без грамотного планирования ведет к финансовым потерям.
  • Отсутствие понимания целевой аудитории и рынка — прямая дорога к провалу.
  • Слишком сильная привязка бренда к публичным лицам (инфлюенсерам) может навредить при их уходе.
  • Недостаточная защита интеллектуальной собственности и данных — риск копирования и потери уникальности.
  • Ожидание быстрых результатов и отсутствие долгосрочной стратегии.
  • Плохая коммуникация и слабое эмоциональное управление ведут к выгоранию.
  • Неумение устанавливать границы с сотрудниками и быть строгим руководителем.
  • Не нужно создавать бренд в своей личной стилистике, если она не совпадает с вкусами целевой аудитории.

Ресурсы и дальнейшие шаги

  • Книга "That Will Never Work" Марка Рэндольфа (сооснователя Netflix) — для понимания стартапов и привлечения инвестиций.
  • Платформа WGSN — для тренд-форекастинга и анализа модных тенденций.
  • Рекомендации по созданию бизнес-плана и поиску инвестиций.
  • Вовлечение аудитории и создание сообщества вокруг бренда через соцсети.
  • Постоянное обучение и поиск наставников для развития навыков руководства.
  • Следить за новыми коллекциями и проектами Veen Dee (например, сентябрьский запуск нового бренда).
  • Развивать навыки коммуникации с командой, устанавливать четкие границы и культуру в компании.

Основные темы

  • Предпринимательство в модной индустрии и особенности запуска бренда.
  • Работа с малайским рынком и его специфика.
  • Инновационный дизайн и создание уникальных продуктов.
  • Стратегии масштабирования и управления командой.
  • Важность построения бренда через коммуникацию и сообщество.
  • Психология предпринимателя: устойчивость, саморефлексия, позитивный настрой.
  • Ошибки и уроки, полученные в процессе развития бизнеса.
  • Тренд-форекастинг и планирование коллекций.
  • Защита интеллектуальной собственности.
  • Баланс между личной жизнью и бизнесом.

📝 Transcript (2136 entries):

Let me share some experience. Starting a business, right? How hard is it? Wow, it’s really hard. My name is VeenDee The founder of Hanya and Hari That’s what everyone calls me. I’m that Chinese girl in the Malaysian market. So I went ahead and joined a local brand called... During Hari Raya, we sold seven million in a month. At that point, I realized if there is any market that I wanna be in it has to be this market. That was when I saw a gap. Why are all the hijabs on the market pink...? Floral's motif Why can't there be more edgy designs? when they fold it in half why can't one side have one pattern and the other side have a different pattern? two uses in one I sold more than 300,000 pieces just this one design when you can't find the answer go out and see the world if you want to enter the Malay market you have to learn... you have to be really smart in making decisions brand language is very important Three years is what it takes to stabilize a brand. If your brand still isn’t stable after three years, then you need to rethink whether this is for you. It’s about perspective. If you believe in yourself, if you feel you can do it, then you absolutely can. Welcome to today’s show. Veen Dee, can you briefly introduce yourself to our listeners? Hi everyone, my name is Veen Dee. I am the founder of Hanya and Hari Hanya is a clothing brand that sits between traditional and fashion styles. Then Hari is a brand of Malay headscarves So I am what everyone calls the Chinese woman in the Malay market. A Chinese woman doing the Malay market hijab business Interesting. She’s handling two brands at the same time. How did you build them up? We’ll talk about that part later. Wow, and she’s also a mother of two. That’s hard. Even harder. Veen Dee, so Hari and Hanya About how many years has it been now? What’s the scale like? Hanya is eight years old. And Hari is in its fourth year this year. We currently have about 20 to 25 employees. There is a shop inside Bangsar Village So you had Hanya before Hari? Yes. That makes me really curious, Veen Dee. What’s your background? Did you study fashion design? I didn’t study fashion design. I don’t even know how to sew. I really couldn’t even stitch my daughter’s badge. I had no idea how to do it. So I studied mass communication. I majored in media production. Mass communication. Yes. My dream was to be a news anchor. Okay, after graduating from university, I came out and... What happened? Right after graduating, I hit a wall. My first-ever rejection. It was really embarrassing. So when I saw an opening at AAC, I said, okay, this is my time. So I went there full of confidence, and said, okay, I want to interview for a Production Assistant at that time or whatever it was. But they said there could be a path to becoming an anchor. So I went for the interview, and then they said, Okay, give us a brief introduction of yourself. Introduce yourself in Mandarin. OK, my name is... So he asked, what are your hobbies? My interests are... Oh my god. So he said, "OK, thank you. No need to continue." Next. So at that point, I was like, OK... Opportunities to be a news anchor are really rare. Because there's only one seat. So I thought, OK, fine. Maybe it's not for me. Then I went to a local brand's platform. It was called FashionValet. At that time, FashionValet was a very big company. So when I joined then, I was a graphic designer. My monthly salary was only 1,700 ringgit. My parents almost disowned me. But I told them, trust me. This Time So they said, okay, go try it out. I remember when I first joined, my monthly salary was 1,700. I stayed there for seven years. When I left, my monthly salary was 17,000. Little by little, I worked my way up. I became Head of Marketing, Head of Sales, and Market Expansion. Brand Expansion So over those seven years, it felt like 17 years to me. So in seven years, I took on all kinds of roles but not as a Fashion Designer. Not a Fashion Designer. I just did all sorts of things. Except fashion design. Then I went out to work as a Fashion Designer. Doesn’t that sound strange? At that time, you had already spent seven years at a big company, a big brand, where you could really make an impact and the pay was pretty good too. 17,000 a month. But why did you want to leave and start on your own? At that time Because when I was at FashionValet, there were only four employees. I was the fifth. By the time I left, we had over 300 employees. Really. Back then, they were scaling very quickly. So I think I was very fortunate I can handle it A marketing budget of 1,500 yuan to having 5 million to spend. So from that, I already experienced what a startup is like, and what corporate is like. At that time, I was in the Marketing Department. So I had a really close We worked together a lot So at that time the head of the Buying Department he’s now my partner at Hanya Yeah, we became really good friends So he’s also Hanya’s partner now So back then, he kept telling me this one problem: why was it so hard to find good local brands here? 开斋节是Peak Season So these local brands they can make, in one Hari Raya season one or two million so after making one or two million, they go into hibernation They don’t have any collections anymore. They might go to Bali for two months. Then they just hibernate. But for our brand, we need to keep launching new products to sustain our expenses and expansion. That’s when I saw a gap. We didn’t have enough brands. So I thought, okay, maybe if I ever wanted to do any business, I had to create a brand. And at the same time, during that period of Hari Raya, our monthly sales were about 7 million. Hari Raya lasts two months. That’s just one month’s sales. So I thought, okay. If there is any market I want to be in, it has to be this market. So at that time I thought, okay. The Malay market. I’m coming. So at that time, I was very decisive. To step out and do it yourself? Yes. When I had that idea, actually, I was probably still working for them. It took me three more years before I started my own business. It was only in the fourth year that I had that kind of idea. At that time, what was your startup capital? 100k. Where did it come from? Where did it come from I went My savings Okay, look at the savings A lot of people have this idea that once I’ve collected this sum of money I’m ready and I’m going to put it into my business to start a brand So at that time, I had the same idea Because I really like reading so I read a book called That Will Never Work by Netflix founder Mark Randolph Yeah. So I said, OK, when I read that book, there was a chapter called OPM. Do you know what that is? It’s called Other People’s Money. So I thought, OK, what is that? Then he talked about how he started Netflix, using Other People’s Money. There’s a line in it where he said, when you start a business, you should never use your own savings. Because your savings are for rainy days. When you start a business, when you run into setbacks, no one is going to come to you and say, Oh no, you’re facing hardship. That’s so sad. Here’s 100K. Let me help you get through it. If someone talks to you like that, There are two scenarios one, they’re a scammer; or two, they really are a benefactor. So when I read that book, I paused and thought. I was like, okay. Why don’t I put together a business proposal? I went to my father. My father said no. He was like No, you can’t. You’ve got such a bad temper, and all that stuff. He said he didn’t want to invest in me. We’d definitely end up arguing. So I said, okay. Then my father-in-law said, I’ll invest in you. Oh, really? We weren’t married yet. So I said, okay. So I made a business proposal. I pitched it to him. Then I got my first funding. I paid him back within 16 months. with 12% interest. Then he gave me another round of funding. to roll it forward. So that was my first funding. My first benefactor. I think many of our listeners hearing this may have a question in mind. You’re Chinese, and you wanted to enter the Malay market. How did you start? At that time, I was at Fashion Valet. I had a lot of Malay colleagues Those Malay colleagues their sense of fashion was much more fashion-forward That’s when I felt in the modest fashion market they cared more about coverage and compliance So finding something more fashion-forward in modest pieces was really hard And because we were at Fashion Valet we had a lot of local brands, right? Local brands were more expensive so a piece of clothing could cost five or six hundred ringgit and then I thought modest fashion Why does it have to be so out of reach? the Chinese market shops on Taobao when you buy something for one or two hundred yuan on Taobao it’s already very good quality so I thought why isn’t there a brand in the modest market with an option like that so I thought I wanted to start a affordable modest fashion and very fashion-forward a brand that sits between tradition and fashion so at that time, Hari had been in business for three or four years A lot of people kept DMing me to ask, What kind of headscarf should I wear with this outfit? As a Chinese person, how would I know? So I started thinking, Okay, I need to keep asking my hijab colleagues what kind of headscarves they wear, because I had to reply to them, so I thought, Why are all the headscarves on the market pink, Pastel Color and covered with flowers? This is Floral's motive Why can't there be bolder designs, more fashion-forward designs? Maybe we Chinese don’t understand but for them, the hijab is a very important accessory Some of my Malay friends have hijab collections that are bigger than their wardrobes So I thought Okay, for Malay women’s hijabs they wear them folded in half So when they fold them, I thought why couldn’t it have one side with a different pattern and the other side with another pattern or even a different color? Then they could use one piece in two ways So I made one side of the hijab black and the other side white. I sold over 300,000 pieces. Just this one design. It’s still a best-seller today. Was this your original design? Yes, it sold for four years. So you created it. Innovation. Yes. So you really have to understand what this market wants. And then anything that doesn’t exist, you can create it. I think that’s very important. So I had Hanya and Hari were both by chance you realized oh, the market was telling you there was a gap like this so you innovated to fill that gap Just now you mentioned that you were very quick with Style Capital to get a quick response back actually, the sales were really good from the start or how was it? The first year was really good I was surprised too When I first launched I was honestly shocked At that time, I remember I was in Kedah Because I had left When I Fasion Valet and gone back to Kedah then got married and everything so at that time I was at home clicked launch I just closed it and went to the coffee shop for breakfast because I didn't want to watch Then I told my husband okay, today I can do 10 orders that would already be very good don't expect too much That day, I got more than 60 orders. I sold out in two weeks. Honestly, I was shocked too. So I said, okay. I can do this. So I quickly started releasing collections. Kept releasing collections. Because I already had experience. So I knew I couldn’t just have one collection. Before I founded this brand, I already had three collections. That's why it's very fast for me to launch again and launch again. So that's how I gathered the first pool of money to reinvest The first year was 2018. How much did you make in the first year? That year, it was about a million, I think. When did it really start scaling up? During the pandemic. Actually, in the third or fourth month. Our payment cards were really tough to manage. Back then, wow. Business was really hard. It was at the point where we were about to close the shop. It was just very hard. Then, I had just given birth. My face was breaking out so badly. Because I had one piece of clothing that was sik. Then I took that Hanya shirt and turned it into a face covering. Then I saw that face covering and thought, wow, this looks good. I put my logo on it. I put my logo on it, you know. After that, a lot of people asked me, This face covering looks great. Where did you buy it? I said, "I made it myself." So more and more people kept asking, and I thought, okay, might as well just make it. So I bought the fabric and had it made at my factory. At that time, when I made it, wow, the response was very good. Right when we launched we could make 20,000 to 30,000 a day because my masks were only 39.90 so that kind of volume for me was very good because I was in the Malay market Malaysians wear hijabs, right? so our masks were ear-loop ones I created a head-loop version with a button so they could adjust it when they wore a tudung they didn’t have to take it off they could just wear it over the tudung the response was even better 100,000 a day A hundred thousand a day? For two straight weeks. So then I launched the disposable mask again and then launched the head disposable too We had two One was called ear loop and one was called head loop So the head loop is for headscarf wearers like scarf wearers to wear it So really understanding your target audience is very important How much did you make that year? Wow, that year... I forgot too That year, it was probably three to four million Is it because of this? Yes, because of this headscarf wrap. That period This was also an original design Another original design But later, a lot of people took it and started using it. It was like, okay, just sell it. What can you do to sue someone? You don’t have the patent. I thought it was actually pretty special. Because things like this seem like there was already demand for them. But no one ever really innovated. When you created it, everyone felt that Wow, it looks great. And it’s really convenient. But actually, because we got greedy. We made a lot of disposable masks, because demand was so high, right? so I just kept making more and more. Actually, I had a lot of leftover masks. But because my costs were covered, so it didn’t hurt as much. We donated them to hospitals, and to government bodies to use. So don’t get greedy. So during the pandemic, you all just surged ahead. Then after that? It kept going down again. Because I was greedy. Because I felt, wow, it was doing so well. Wow, hired! Let's go. So I thought, Oh, I have so much inventory. My sales will go up too, right? ok let's go Then for marketing, wow, five people already. I even hired animators. Wow, at that time the office had about 50 people. For two brands, that was a lot. It was unnecessary. Back then, I was also really lost because I spent so much time not on creating but on management then I felt wow, I’m so tired, you know? maybe I just didn’t like that side of it because I like being friends with my staff but if you’re the boss, the first rule is you can’t be friends with your staff you have to set boundaries so it was also hard for me to control that kind of affection, you know so, okay So management is very hard. Back then, I overhired by 50 people. Inventory went up, costs went up, but inventory didn't move. Back then, I realized, Hey, Hanya could do sleeveless. Make sleeveless styles, more variation make sleeveless styles, it wasn't as modest anymore. You can't. I ended up with one or two million in stock sitting in the warehouse, looking at it every day and crying. After that, I had a lot of connections so I borrowed from Aeon and sold it as bundles so slowly, slowly, I cleared it out From that experience overexpanding did you learn your lesson? Target audience is very important Proper planning is very important Listening to the numbers is very important You clearly know long sleeves sell so well but you make short sleeves Why? So you didn't have proper planning you overhired At the end of the day you can only blame yourself because you didn't plan it properly based on the data so that was a painful lesson in the market for Muslim fashion design there are so many brands how do you make consumers remember you? what is your brand positioning? I think brand language is very important like I said I keep talking about target audience your branding how you talk to your customers also very very important I’m Chinese, but I’m very confident. I think I understand hijabs better than the Chinese people in the room now, or Chinese people in the market, even better than Malays I understand the importance of a hijab the functionality of the hijab, which fabric won’t make noise, which fabric creates a beautiful drape. I know all of that. So that technicality 是够hand in hand的 Your branding can go out But the quality is also very important. You need to know what you’re selling. What the headscarf means to them. What the clothing means to them. Hanya is kind of like a mother. practicality And aesthetics are also a very important attribute. It was as if Hanya was loud but not too showy. Clothes suitable for interviews to brunch to weddings She knows this shirt is a white button-down. But the cut is very oversized. I have a larger lapel because I feel that if I only sold one just very normal oversized clothes you can get that at Uniqlo why would you buy it from me? they do it better than I do So Hanya leans more toward elevated basics is part of it Whereas Hari, she’s bolder more distinctive and her language is very forward, too so Hari went through a rebrand there’s a funny story actually, with Hari I chose a That was also a mistake of mine. My partner. I chose the wrong partner. So in the first year, she was doing well. In the second year, it felt like she let go a bit more. So how was I supposed to bring her back? I couldn’t anymore. And she was a celebrity. So I was thinking, how do I detach the brand from her? Because my concept is, when I sign a brand, I’ll detach it from a very, very popular Malay figure. I would sign a three-year contract for three years then I would renew that contract because at Fashion Valet I launched seven brands I know that starting a brand takes three years to really stabilize it and once it’s stable you can separate the public figure from the brand because tying a public figure to a brand is very risky because if anything happens the brand will go down with the public figure so at that time I had a lot of arguments and everything with her So I decided 我要rebrand Hari It used to be called Hari Rose It was more feminine and outspoken Then I rebranded her into a styling guide a Malay styling guide Basically, in my catalog I would show you how to style the clothes how to style the hijab all the way to shoes and even matching socks how to put everything together a complete modest women’s styling guide My sales doubled back then. So I was still afraid my rebrand wouldn’t work. Because I really understood my customers. You just asked me, how do you make your customers stick to you, right? You really have to stick to them. For example, you really have to follow your consumers. Like a stalker. You really have to have a very, very high level of curiosity about them. You really need to know what they actually like, where they go shopping, what they’re talking about on Threads right now. You have to have a very, very strong curiosity about them Sometimes people feel like we know our consumers even better than they know themselves That’s when your customers come back So actually, Hanya and Hari are you targeting different consumers? There’s some crossover How would you describe your consumers’ customer avatar? Hanya’s basket value is higher so they can afford better quality like the fabric, those kinds of things so they’re working moms too They have a certain level of spending power. Hari may be fresh out of college, and they’re more expressive female consumers. So there’s crossover. But their aesthetic, and the designs they’re looking for, are pretty much the same. Because I can see in Hanya’s tagged photos Hari’s customers and in Hari’s tagged photos Seeing Hanya's customer That’s really such a lucky thing. I’m really lucky. So like Veen Dee just mentioned, actually, you really understand What is your consumer like? What do they like? But in terms of branding, what do they remember you for? Do they also remember that you're, for example, elegant, or very creative? Which adjective fits you? I think branding isn't about you telling people who you are, it's about who consumers feel you are. So I always do a lot of interaction with my customers, to make them feel like they're part of my decision-making. Like before I launch when I launch a collection I’ll release short videos and ask them which looks better, the long sleeve or the short sleeve? which button looks better? should I add a pocket or not add a pocket? Actually, I don’t need those answers because those answers need to be made two months earlier already because by the time I ask them those products may already be in my warehouse, ready to launch but that interaction is really important to them because they feel like they’re part of you they helped you make the decision making them feel like they’re part of me part of the decision-making process they feel a connection to your brand to the brand then they’ll feel like oh my god I need to know what the final product looks like did she actually listen did she take my advice did she choose the options I picked in the end every time I release a video like that my series would definitely be a huge hit so I think engagement with my consumers and my customers is very important they want to feel like a friend someone they can talk to someone they can share things with so I think community is part of brand building a very important part for the brand I’m building so I think my customers see me as like a sister or a friend. Because if you see an influencer selling something versus a friend selling something, would you buy from your friend or from an influencer? Would you trust your friend more, or your sister? I think that sense of closeness, and the connection my customers build with the brand through me, is very important. Brand building for me is not about forcing a sale, but about the relationship between you and your customers, and how you spark your customers' curiosity about your brand. I don't want to force the message on them. I want them to feel like they’re part of the content-creation process We have community events We have Friends of Hanya So we have a group called Friends of Hanya So right now we have about 20 to 30 people who receive tokens from us every month they can buy free clothes from us but they will talk about us like UGC and stuff They might receive, each month our budget is $500 to $600 they can buy anything from Hanya Because we launch a new collection every month, so we tell them, we have a new collection. Here’s a banner you can post to your Story. Then they post it to their Story. It’s like a friends group. They help promote our brand. So when we look at Veen Dee, a lot of young people in our audience, maybe they also have this idea in their hearts, that every month they want to start their own fashion brand, some kind of fashion label. Is there anything they might not know about, any pitfalls you could share with them? Don't do it—it burns a lot of money. Run as far away from it as you can. With fashion brands, it's a very long road. Actually, it's not just fashion brands. Any kind of entrepreneurship is a very long road. A lot of people think, Wow, I went all out on this campaign. If you want to go all out on a campaign, make sure your next five campaigns can all go all out too. That's the persistence you need in entrepreneurship. The entrepreneurial journey is like a marathon. You have to run at at a pace you’re comfortable with If you keep spinning and spinning and spinning you’ll burn out very fast I think in the fashion industry like I said again the target audience is very important If you’re like me I'm not a modest, I'm a living person When I make clothes I want to wear it won't sell But when I put my own aesthetic into what my customers want it will sell So when you’re building a fashion brand a lot of people think, if people like my style Then I’d just make clothes in my own style. You can’t. How many people actually like clothes in your style? Sis, so you need to know your market size. Like, if you ask me why I didn’t go after the Chinese market, the live consumer market in Malaysia is only 20–25%. Malays are Hello more than 50% Its potential is very big, and is further for me to break through the glass ceiling. If you really have no choice, and you absolutely have to start a fashion brand, I think you need to plan your cash flow very properly then forecast the trend very well but all in all first, put together a really solid business proposal many years ago, people kept telling me I want to start a brand, I want to quit I want to start a brand I want to quit, I want to start a brand Where’s your business proposal? ok, off topic I feel like when you pitch an idea when you get funding versus when your parents give you money it feels different when you take your business proposal and ask your parents for money when you get it that’s really good validation and it also indirectly trains your mindset to be like this is a real business my first step actually worked I made this much money compared with going straight to your parents and saying, “Hey, I need 100,000.” of course that feels different maybe your parents will give it to you but it just feels completely different so I think if you really want to When you start a fashion brand, you need to know whether you're doing hypebeast, Or are you the one who wants to be modest? Or are you going to do something sexy? or which direction you're taking. So you need to know which direction you want to go. Then you go in that direction. Because fashion is so huge. I think that's just how it is. But go as far as you can. It burns money—really burns money. And for you, what's the most frustrating part of running a fashion brand? Trend forecasting. Fashion is like a three-month cycle. Malaysia isn’t a raw material-exporting country. So you have to import your fabric and your labor from overseas cargo itself already takes 30 days so your whole process is 3 months But, for example, if polka dots are really trendy right now and your clothes sell out in an hour then you have nothing left to sell after that, restocking takes 3 months in 3 months, will polka dots still be trending? So that is very frustrating it’s trend forecasting and speed If Malaysia had enough raw materials we could produce in our own factory that would be a really good thing that’s my aim in the future, I want to have Hanya produced only in Malaysia a truly local brand but it’s hard you need that sense of aesthetics you need that sense of aesthetics of course, aesthetics means you have to be able to forecast yeah so when you forecast whether it really becomes a hit or not What if you forecast the wrong thing? It just sits in the warehouse forever. So I think the most frustrating part is forecasting and timelines. You really have to plan it very, very well. So we use a lot of statistics to forecast. There’s something called WGSN. I use it all the time. It’s a trend forecasting website. They use blockchain technology to collect data from a large number of websites. So every year, they have a report that comes out. So every year, I buy that report to read. So if young people want to start a fashion brand, they need to have taste, and that taste can’t just be your personal taste. You have to know the market, but you already have a certain sense of taste. You personally have to have that standard of taste. You’ll feel whether this thing is comfortable to my eyes or not, then later meet market demand. Taste and product demand are not the same. It’s like, taste alone isn’t enough either. Just demand alone won’t work either. Those two have to go hand in hand. That brings us to today. If someone today wants to copy your model, you do this design, I do this design, you make this kind of thing, I make this kind of thing, what do you think is the hardest thing to copy? That’s the really headache-inducing part. Right now, there are probably three or four brands in the market selling the same thing as I do. And one of them is even my ex-staff. It drives me crazy. So I think The things they can’t copy from you are probably I think it sounds cliché but it’s me as the founder my character, my passion those are things they can’t copy and my aesthetic too I’m not saying I’m very forward in aesthetics or whatever but I have a certain standard that keeps the brand up so how do I keep innovating the speed of innovation those are things they just can’t copy So they’re always behind me. I’m always the one first. The one who created these things. Yeah, but it’s like when you go to China, and you want to buy this shirt, there are ones for five bucks, ten bucks, fifteen bucks, even fifty bucks. So quality assurance is also one thing they can’t copy. I’m very detailed. I check very carefully the quality of my clothes. So, I think passion is also something that’s very hard to copy. That will show up in the process of building your brand. So you can take it but you won't be able to let it go when you don't let go of that belief It's not real. It has to be very real. Actually, a lot of people, when they're doing something, let's say, several parts, they may not be that passionate about those things. They just want to say, I want to make money. Or when they're doing it, they don't put enough into it. It feels like it can all blend together. It's like you and the business become one. So maybe today, you might say If there’s no central figure the brand might go downhill. Yeah, that’s something I’ve been reflecting on too. How long do I have before I can separate myself from the brand? Because sometimes, maybe I say something wrong on a podcast, and people cancel my brand—then what? So that’s also one of my thoughts on the matter. Until when do I need to become the central figure of this brand? But sometimes it’s very funny because back then, when I grow Hanya的follower outnumber my own followers I’m like, wow, I’m doing so well. I’m so happy. So I’m really happy. Some people know Hanya but don’t know me. So the people who know me probably trust my brand more. But the people who don’t know me just trust the brand’s aesthetic. So Veen Dee, up to today, your whole group what’s the current size, roughly in revenue? About 7 million a year. From the very beginning If you were to sum it up now, what do you think you did right? I think maybe there’s an off-topic but maybe I can look at this question from another angle. Like, what did I do right? Not just in business, either. For example, in a previous podcast episode, when they asked me, what makes you happiest in the process of starting a business? At that time, the two scenes in my mind were going on stage, getting featured in the newspaper, It has nothing to do with that. The first one is I have an employee who has worked with me for eight years my first employee and she’s still here now Back then, I was helping him pack in the warehouse so he came to tell me Hey, you know what? I bought a house. Because my husband is a developer, he said I bought the house built by Mr. Han. And I was like, oh my God. Then he said Because you gave me... I did live hosting, and I had extra income. So now I can afford to have my own home. I cried so hard at the time. He cried with me too. Back then, I felt that since I started my business, the happiest moment was that one. I could elevate my staff’s lifestyle. I could improve their quality of life. So I felt maybe at that time, I really felt I had done the right thing. Maybe in terms of business revenue size, whatever, there was no relationship at all, but in my soul, I felt wow, that sense of accomplishment was really great. The second one was the same. I had one staff member. He commutes two hours every day from Shah Alam because my office is in Pavilion Damansara Heights 他shah alam pavilion He commutes two hours every day up to two and a half hours One day, he said let’s go eat lunch I’ll have lunch with you I’ll take you out for lunch I said, huh, go out for lunch? He said, yeah, yeah, yeah, I’ll drive you So he took me to his new car and said, I bought a new car At that time, I still remembered that three months earlier I had just given him a raise So he said, "Thank you for giving me that increment." I can buy this car now. And I rented a place very close to the office. Before, his car was so bad that even the rearview mirror was covered with a plastic bag. That kind of thing. Do you know how hard it was? So at that time, I cried, and he cried too. Those two things left a very deep impression on me. And they made me feel that I must have done something right for me to be able to I knew I had done something right to feel this sense of fulfillment in business So if you ask me what I did right in building the business a lot, a lot I made the right decisions like accurately predicting customer needs But the most fulfilling thing for me is an experience I’ll never forget in my life I think that matters even more than a lot of things on the business journey and it helps you redefine what entrepreneurship means Right. It’s like, wow, when you’re about to give up You can’t give up, bro. He wants to buy a new car, bro. you know So I just feel okay maybe I can say my answer may not really answer your from a business perspective I think when we’re business owners, a lot of the time we feel what makes me happy is the number. Actually, our soul and our pursuit of accomplishment are also very important. along the journey You have to spend time appreciating your progress not just in the numbers but in that little sense of accomplishment That little sense of accomplishment might just be Maybe you can only contribute 20% or 30% but he included me and when he gave me the good news I felt honored This is Veen Dee let’s talk a bit about you personally Since you were young, did you ever feel that your way of thinking was different from other kids your age? I’m very passionate, and I’m also very assertive I don’t like being in a vague situation It’s like sometimes some kids will say It's ok啦 It's ok啦 Or even when we're adults, you feel like you're in a complicated situation. Then you're like, It's ok啦 It's ok啦 But for me, no. I have to figure it out. No. Like in our conversation, I feel like what you're saying about this fact isn't quite right. I'll see first if you’re good at debating. Because I think if you can't debate, I won't debate with you. But if I think, no, this isn't right, I'd be more assertive than other people. I'd want to know, "This isn't right." Not because I want to win, but because I don't like living in a vague, unclear state. So I think, compared with people my age, I'd be a little more assertive. Or, like, in a way, I used to study in Australia, so I'd always stop by Bangkok on the way back to Australia. Normally, I'd go home with my friends, and they'd go party, go party, whatever, right? So I'd say, "Okay, okay, when you guys go party, I went to that chattel I’d go buy earrings, bracelets, and clothes. Then I’d take them back and sell them. Not for shopping. I’d tell them, OK, I’ll buy you a drink, but you have to wear my earrings, wear my bracelets, wear my clothes. I’d take photos and put them on eBay to sell. I was a little rich girl, you know? My parents didn’t give me that much money. So, no. Back then, I was very clear about what I wanted to do. I wouldn’t just let peer pressure make me go, like, oh, everyone’s going to the party, so I should too. No. I was very clear about what I wanted to do. what I wanted to do So back then, I’d bring things back from Thailand and buy them in Australia. when I was in uni. So I think why I say I don’t like being in a gray area. It’s not just about figuring out the facts. It’s also about figuring out what you really want. So when I was in uni, I already had a pretty good idea of what I wanted. So if I did it that way, I could buy a car in Australia, okay. a rich girl Manual, yeah Manual, yeah but enough for me to commute So I feel like, the clearer you are, the stronger you become It’s like you’re shy, shy when things are unclear, right that’s when you give other people a chance to put you in a difficult position I don’t like being in that kind of situation So I’m probably a bit tougher than other people So how about the people around you, or your team how would they describe you as a boss? Tough As everyone knows, I make decisions very quickly. If I feel someone isn’t a fit, even if it’s a three-month probation, by the second month, I’ll say no. I don’t think it’s right. Leave. But I’ll say it clearly. I’ll make them an offer. I’ll ask them to reject my offer. At least let it feel like you turned me down. That way. So if they describe me, I’m very strict, but I also don’t know... How would I describe myself as a boss? I think I can be quite strict sometimes and sometimes a little crazy because I come up with all kinds of wild ideas then I tell them I want to do this, this, this, this so they’ll be like No, this budget won’t work this won’t work, that won’t work then I’ll go find a sponsor myself like when I’m taking my press team because I do a press trip every year I say I want to do this, and if I can’t I’ll go make the business deck myself Then I go pitch the deck I go pitch I didn’t tell my team I pitched it first Then I got it Then I told them See, I got it. Now you guys do it Like that Lead by example So I know what I want What I can get I go do it And if it really can’t be done I’ll follow your steps If I think it can, then you follow me You mentioned earlier At first, you overexpanded to more than 50 people and now you’re down to around 20-plus people How do you decide whether that person should stay? What’s your hiring and firing logic? First, they have to fit into the team If your culture doesn’t fit into the team like, you’re not very positive you’re always negative and complaining and then I have met a girl like that Wow, she was really great in every way very good but every day at her desk, she would say I hate my job. I hate this, I hate that. So my HR would get a lot of complaints. So there was nothing we could do. Even though she performed well at work, I still had to fire her. Then second, I think you have to be very proactive. Like, when you don't have anything to do, you need to proactively look for ways to help my team members, and think about how I can solve this problem, that nobody is doing right now. So proactiveness is also very important. Because I'm a very active, very positive person, so I think If I had a negative person pulling me down I'd feel terrible because I'm naturally very enthusiastic I am very passionate So I really like it my God, let's do this, guys and then in the end when things get really negative, I get really low so that's the kind of thing that drains me so I feel like this kind of thing sucks out my energy I'll just eliminate it Veen Bee, you mentioned that you're so positive 很energetic the audience watching you on camera wow, they must think this person is very warm Over these many years of entrepreneurship, have there been any moments when you felt exhausted, maybe wanted to give up? Yes—day before yesterday, yesterday, this morning. There are many times I want to give up, because entrepreneurship is really lonely. You feel very alone. You feel like, why doesn’t anyone understand me? They don’t understand the reason behind why I’m doing this. Or maybe you can’t even explain to your employees why you’re doing these things, right? But then you also feel there’s no need to explain it to them, because how would they know? or sometimes your staff does something really wrong you have to fire them you also can’t just tell your employees and just quietly swallow it yourself but people will see, like, their team is quitting again but you won’t say, oh, I fired this person to preserve their dignity so I think there are many times when, in entrepreneurship, I feel like, wow, so many times I’m misunderstood so many times I get like the blame is being pointed at me it’s actually not me you know what I mean? it just feels exhausting so painful and lonely but you can’t keep saying the same thing what do you do when you’re short on funds you have to take it out of your savings you can’t tell your employees hey, I can’t pay your salary this month. what do I do? You cannot do that right? You're like oh my god Do I go back to the family? Where do I go? so that was the problem back then you just solve it yourself So I think entrepreneurship is really lonely. So when you start a business, you really have to think about whether your mindset is big enough to take all of it in. Whether you’re firm enough to still keep an open, sincere heart while leading your team forward. If you don't, right? Then don't start. In a lot of these mentally draining, exhausting moments, how do you keep going? My mirror. My mirror. I talk to my mirror every morning. You can do it. You're the best. Because I think everyone, when facing setbacks, the first thing you think is Why me? Why would God do this to me, right? Actually, you take a different approach like You have to be really smart in making decisions At the same time, you also need to be able to accept making the wrong decision That’s why when you make a decision others can’t understand, you need to make sure you’ve thought it through countless times before making that decision, because you’re the leader of the company So no matter how tired you are, you have to think back to why you made that decision what it was for So I feel like when something like that happens, it’s okay I learned something from it. Good for me. Yeah. A blessing in disguise. My mental state, right, it automatically switches. I'm very good at shifting my mindset. I don't know. Maybe my therapist would think it's unhealthy. But But I think this is one way I regulate my emotions. I feel like I did this wrong. What can I learn from it? learn from it and then I make sure I don’t do that again So When I’m tired I just think about it like that I’d be like, okay, got it or You remember Do you remember the day you first started doing this? How did it feel back then? Mindset is really important So your heart really has to Entrepreneurship really takes a huge, huge be more forgiving of all the setbacks, the misunderstandings, everything. I think you just mentioned the communication with yourself, that communication the self-narrative, telling yourself, "Okay, it’s okay," what this thing is like A lot of people actually don’t have much time to communicate with themselves. What they say to themselves is, why me? why am I more prone to victimization It's easier, right? And then I realized So Veen Dee, one advantage you have is I don't know if it's your personality or what when you're doing something you run a simulation in your head you have to If I launch this piece of clothing how will people see it? Will they like it? And when you're doing that you feel like if I talk to people like this What will he think? I’m doing this idea if I talk to people about this what will their opinion be? I think in your mind there are a lot of there will a lot of concern simulations a lot but most of them are positive It’s really important to stay positive when running a business even if that positivity is fake As Rihanna said fake it till you make it, right? Confidence is one thing, no one will know you're faking confidence just do it, bro like, you know, no matter how scared you are when you go on stage, you better do it right that's just how it is no matter how bad it looks turn that stone into a diamond like this that's why I think you have to when you really believe in the brand you've created yourself you really feel like you're the one in charge of your own life You really can control everything. You can do it. So if I stand in front of the mirror and talk to myself like, hey, you can do this, I know I can do it. That mindset is really important to me. So sometimes my mom or my husband doesn’t understand why I’m in the bathroom for so long. Really, I’m just talking to myself. Because I think that practice is very important to me. And I’m also very grateful I’ll always be grateful. It’s like what you just asked me and I think what’s the right thing to do I wouldn’t say it’s the numbers I wouldn’t say which magazine cover I got featured on the cover or which newspaper cover I’m very lucky I have this team I can provide this environment for my team so I think gratitude is also very important thank you everything I really would do that. Do you teach your child that? Yes. I always tell him, You are the luckiest girl in the world. I'm very lucky to have you. You make me so happy. Then I’ll teach him to say that to himself. Or I’ll say the first line, and he’ll continue the next line. This really is a very, very good way to teach. I think you have a strong mindset. You have this weird kind of power that helps you achieve everything so I feel that’s really important I believe a lot of people their self-esteem is instilled in them by their parents from a young age what they can and can’t do has a huge, huge impact on their future Actually, my parents were like that my parents are my mom every time I go on stage she would say I don’t think you can do it it’s okay Because she was afraid I’d get hurt. She was afraid people would laugh at me. Or that I still wouldn’t get first place. She’d say, "You can’t do it." It’s okay. at the last minute You can’t do it. but I’d still go for it anyway. Because by then I’d already told the person in the mirror "You can do it," right? There’s no turning back. So just go for it. It also took me a very long time to regulate my own emotions. along the way Was there a moment when you felt you had made a mistake that was hard to let go of? I think a lot of the time when we feel that we have to do this thing okay, don’t do anything illegal. But right or wrong, you still go ahead and do it. Then you have to give it your all. So when you ask me, do I think I’ve ever done something wrong, I wouldn’t say I did anything wrong. or whatever I’d feel like I learned from it from that like, for example I didn’t protect my folder my technical drawings later, my Excel files downloaded everything my entire year of technical drawings launched the same brand selling products just like mine that was a mistake a huge, stupid mistake but I’m also glad it happened so I know I need to protect my files. So, guys, when you start a business, you really need to protect your files, watermark everything, set passwords and everything, because trust no one. Really. That was probably one of the things in business that made me feel like I made a mistake. That's how Veen Dee is throughout this journey, was there any advice or anything someone told you that you feel really affected you? There are two lines, I guess. The first one is when I was just about to start my business, my dad told me he said, keep going, the first time won’t be your best. because I was really scared what if I fail? and this was my first time starting a business, so I had to do really well, right? so he told me, the first time is definitely not going to be your best, but life is about experiences. just go through it. what entrepreneurship is like You gain experience by going through it and experience will make sure that when you try a second time when you fall it won’t hurt as much or experience will also protect you from falling I think Yeah, that makes sense just give it a try how hard entrepreneurship is Wow, it really is hard but like but this is also the one I always keep in mind whenever I try something new for the first time I’m just here to experience it whether good or bad it will still be beneficial to me I keep telling myself I’ll always remember that and then the second time was in 2025 when my business was at its lowest when I really couldn’t even pay salaries it was a very bad time I stepped away from the brand for six months I have a mentor who told me he said when you can’t find the answer Go out and see the world. Go see other people out there. They’re just living their lives too. Things aren’t as bad as you think. It’s that bad. We’re literally a speck of dust in the whole universe. It’s not that serious. So I really think actually, when you feel wow, this is terrible, when you complicate things, if you really think about it, it’s not that hard. If you all die alone, That's a different story. So don't. It's just an experience. Just experience it. But as long as you have a solid plan to solve this problem it's ok Then he also told me Just go through it. Then you have to know that when making decisions, you have to be very smart. We're all first-time bosses. So I felt like I was a boss How am I doing such a bad job? my team which team members keep leaving how can I retain good talent that’s when I’d talk to my mentor and have a conversation like that and he said one thing to me how many times have you been a boss and I said, the first time then he said why are you being so hard on yourself it’s your first time being a boss, right do you know what to do and how to do all this well you don’t, right then go learn Then you work with the team And you have to be very honest about it and show some vulnerability Sometimes I’d tell my team This is my first time doing this project if anything comes up we’ll do it together and figure it out together That’s when my mentor would be like, okay I have someone I can lean on I'm not solely responsible for overseeing and guiding this project on my own I would feel okay I can be a little kinder to myself a little more understanding myself because you can’t expect other people to be understanding who are you to ask for that? if you’re always expecting it from other people you’re not going to get very far so I think I just talk to myself I understand you it's ok you can do it and then you pass that on to other people then that person will start to understand you if not who can really understand a boss? they always think the boss can do everything and knows everything This is something I gradually realized through experience. Don't be too hard on yourself. You're here just to experience all of this. So chill. Chill out, man. Just experience it. Once I really understood that it's so nice you feel like it's really not that bad. If there's no staff like this if there's no staff, I'll do it myself. Actually, I this is what I like to do on the first day anyway so now I feel like I’m happy doing the work. A lot of the time, one thing is just a matter of perspective exactly change your perspective and it’s completely different like what we just discussed, right? why me why me, right? if you look at it from another angle oh my god thank you for showing me this so I won’t make the same mistake again or I’ll wait until I have a bigger budget to do it then I will like do it worse, right? so thank god I’d be like, oh no, wow. Luckily, that way. That way, Veen Dee. Back to the business side. Now you’re in the fashion industry yourself. How do you see the current fashion market? Has anything changed? Or, put another way, what’s changed about consumers? I think consumers now are braver about trying lots of styles. You see, the market now has ghost boy and then there’s svg There are brick-and-mortar stores. all these brands the kind of brands people would line up for the night before to buy And now, when young people create brands, it’s different from our generation. They’re way better at reaching customers and talking to them and creating that kind of hype. So that is something I want to learn. But like you asked me just now, what has changed about consumers? What’s different? Yes, consumers now Oh my God. It’s kind of scary. It feels like our founder group is having this conversation now: Hey, did you get hit this year? Did you go viral? Consumers now are very willing to speak up and share their feedback. It feels like back in our day, I guess we’re almost the same age, if we had feedback, we’d email customer service. Hello, my shirt has a hole. What should I do? Refund Nowadays, customers go straight to calling you out I got a hole in my top Is this customer service you have blah blah blah but you haven’t even received their email yet and they’re already posting about it online But I think for a brand that can be a really scary thing but it’s good in a way that it keeps you on your toes and makes you more alert so you’ll Okay, I need to really get it together so I don't get viral If you ask me about consumer trends, they’re more willing to express themselves. In terms of like after-sales service or even designers, they’re more brave about trying different styles. You’ll be surprised. modest, girls, right? Their fashion is very, very cool. I’m telling you, every day I’m surprised by these modest women, right? I surprise myself. It’s like one day, My Malaysian colleague wore a scarf a very long one because their scarves are very long about 70 cm he layered it wrapped it around his head and then pinned, pinned, pinned it he turned it into a short skirt and then layered a pair of long pants over it Wow, so cool I think wow, how can you think of something like that I thought, wow very, very cool it all comes together in the styling combining aesthetics and coverage perfectly together I’d think, wow, that’s really inspiring so when you compare this kind of modest fashion to modest fashion five years ago, right they wouldn’t have been brave enough to try these things so I think in the modest market we’re also more willing to use different colors different prints different patterns to try things out yeah Veen Dee, it sounds like what you’re doing Are you targeting the Malay market? A lot of our listeners and a lot of young people if they want to start a business, would you actually encourage them to target the Malay market? Because in Malaysia, 70% 70% of the market is Malay For the Chinese market, there are too many options Shopee now there’s Pinduoduo and Taobao There’s too much price competition there. Whereas in the Malay market, right, they’re more able and more willing to spend when it comes to quality. They understand quality assurance, but for Chinese consumers in the Chinese market, if they feel it’s affordable and a good deal, ok I will buy I’m not saying this applies to everyone. I’m just sharing what I’ve observed in this market. But I think if you want to enter the Malay market, you really need to learn What is the Malay market? What do they want? What do they need? Instead of blindly thinking, this has a 70%... I’m entering this market. Then you can’t do it. Because you don’t understand what they need, what they want. Maybe a lot of people are targeting the Chinese market. So actually, it’s very competitive. Those coming from China, actually, in the Malay market, maybe there are a lot of niches. Actually, no one has occupied it yet. that category Yeah. I think modest fashion has many categories. Because I feel maybe we don’t understand it, so you’d think it’s actually just one category. But it actually has many categories. And I’m just in one of those categories. I still want to go into a few other categories. That’s why I have a group to create an umbrella brand to cater to all these small, small categories because when I was at Fashion Valet working there we catered to the top line so there were a lot of those business decisions I didn’t really agree with so from there I learned if I were to have a business and create many brands I wouldn’t do it that way I just felt we don’t need to keep chasing top-line growth We are horizontal There are multiple top lines too? It doesn’t have to be just one vertical. If it’s only one vertical, then I’m putting all my eggs in one basket. So I’ll slowly, slowly build A brand of umbrella Launch one brand every three years. Because I believe that, in itself, it takes three years for a brand to really establish itself. If your brand can’t stand on its own within three years, then you need to rethink whether this is right for you. That's how Veen Dee is back to your business side Hari Hanya or your whole group of companies For the next two or three years, do you have any targets? Where do you want to take it? I think if you asked me this question five years ago versus asking me this question today, it would be very different. So I'm so glad you ask me this question because I'm in a very calm phase right now. Over all these years of entrepreneurship I think this past year has been my happiest most content and most peaceful year because I feel from all these years, right you have to find a pace that suits you one that also makes you feel very fulfilled with the speed of your progress now is very hard you feel a sense of fulfillment that is when you're running your own business after about eight years you're already very tired you're like oh my God Why am I putting myself through this? But now I feel like my team is smaller than it was the past two years but I'm more focused now Right now, my focus isn't to grow to, like, triple million triple the sales or quadruple the sales It's to solidify what I've already built So now I need to make sure all of my brands can grow on their own so they Each brand has its own unique personality. They all have their own growth path. I need to strengthen them all. Because at my previous company, in one year, I created seven brands. What happened in the third year? All the brands shut down. So I know, that’s not what I want to do. I have to take it slow and do it right. So I create one brand every three years. One brand every three years. By the time I’m 70, how many brands will I have created? I don’t know but I like doing it I like creating brands I love it This September, I’ll have a new brand so yes it hasn’t been reviewed yet it hasn’t been reviewed yet so we need to Everyone should go check out your Instagram Yes, yes September I’m really looking forward to it And it’s not clothing and it’s not clothing so I’m really looking forward to it because this year Hari marks its fourth year so we’ve been preparing for a year already like when you set your goal you have to be very disciplined create a brand in three years just create a brand in three years very disciplined yeah Veen Dee, thank you so much for sharing with us today we’re looking forward to seeing you do even better thank you please stay tuned too, everyone for the September launch Okay. but before our final question today Veen Dee I have a gift for you of a variety thank you Lastly, Veen Dee if someone listening to this podcast today is a young woman who just graduated what age, what age maybe 25 if she feels lost right now and doesn’t know which direction to take after listening to today’s podcast They feel inspired by your story. What advice would you give her? Actually, I also have a lot of young girls who slide into my DMs all the time. Not bad things, and then tell me, like, ‘I want to quit today.’ What do you think? I just graduated, where should I go? what should I do? I’m really happy that they share things like this with me. Most of the time, they’re usually more negative. because you’re just feeling lost like your question, like that I don't know where to go, right I just go back to it and it feels like the first time is always scary but if you don't have that first time the second time will be even scarier so go experience this life of yours and believe that you can do it you are you the one in charge of your life you can do it so no matter what you feel you can do it No one can stop you. I’d tell them, you can be scared and brave at the same time. Because I think courage isn’t innate either. It’s not like I’d instantly think, I can do this. No way. It all comes from experience. That’s how I’d brave enough to try it. It’s like when you study. Once you’ve finished studying, and gained that knowledge, then you’re brave enough to try. I feel like I can do this. It’s like when I was a graphic designer, I didn’t know I’d start a fashion brand. But I felt like I had enough experience, so I could give it a try. I’d just go experience it. Because I feel like this is me. This is something I’ve always loved doing, right? If it doesn’t work, do I stop doing it? The reason is often not that complicated. I’m just doing something I like. If you think about it that way, things become a lot simpler. It really isn’t that complicated. It’s about perspective. You believe in yourself. You’re the one in control of your own world. No matter how old you are, or how many times you’ve failed, or whether you’re just starting something, right? If you think you can, you definitely can. I believe you can, too.